In this episode, we sit down with Jamal Joseph, a former member of the Black Panther Party and one of the Panther 21, to discuss his revolutionary journey and the enduring lessons of resistance. Jamal reflects on his time in the Black Panther Party, detailing his political education and the critical role of the BPP’s survival programs, all while facing the insidious efforts of COINTELPRO to dismantle the movement.
He shares his firsthand experience as part of the Panther 21, offering insight into the legal defense strategies that ultimately led to their “not guilty” verdict. Jamal discusses how the Panther 21 organized from within prison walls, creating a new model of legal resistance that would shape future movements.
Throughout the conversation, Jamal highlights the vital contributions of women in keeping the Black Panther Party alive, and offers a sobering look at the personal cost of being a revolutionary, including the impact of PTSD and life after the BPP. He also reflects on the lessons he learned from revolutionary leader Kuwasi Balagoon and provides critical advice for navigating the political challenges of today, including the rise of Trumpism.
This episode is a deep dive into the legacy of the Panther 21, revolutionary organizing, and the enduring power of resistance.
ABOUT JAMAL:
Jamal Joseph is an American writer, director, producer, poet, activist, and educator. Joseph was a member of the Black Panther Party and the Black Liberation Army. He was prosecuted as one of the Panther 21.
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EPISODE CHAPTERS
00:00 - Intro
18:18 - On political education as a member of the Black Panther Party
21:35 - Jamal Joseph on being a part of the Panther 21
30:26 - Jamal on the BPP survival programs and the damage of COINTELPRO
36:10 - Being a part of the Panther 21 and legal defense strategies for their trials
43:53 - How the Panther 21 organized while incarcerated and developed a radical legal defense
47:15 - Why the Panther 21 was found “not guilty” and a new model of legal resistance
52:14 - How women kept the BPP together
54:01 - On the cost of living of being an organizer today
01:02:11 - Organizing outside the BPP and the 1981 Brinks Incident
01:04:21 - On confronting political and personal PTSD
01:09:41 - Jamal Joseph on what he learned from Kuwasi Balagoon
01:11:26 - Jamal’s advice for those worried about our political moment and Trump 2025
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TO LEARN MORE...
Panther Baby: A Life of Rebellion and Reinvention: Buy on Barnes & Noble
Tupac: A Legacy: Buy on Amazon
Soul of Ice by Eldridge Cleaver
The Autobiography of Malcolm X
The Wretched of the Earth by Frantz Fanon
The Little Red Book (Quotations from Chairman Mao Tse-tung)
OTHER RESOURCES...
1986 Interview: Explore Jamal Joseph’s reflections on his time in the Black Panther Party and his shift to the Black Liberation Army (BLA)
Jamal Joseph on “Dear Mama” (Hulu): Watch on Hulu
TO FOLLOW "THE DUGOUT"...
Our Substack: https://substack.com/@thedugoutpod Our Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/TheDugoutPod Our Links: https://thedugout.carrd.co/
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